Showing posts with label costa rica. Show all posts
Showing posts with label costa rica. Show all posts

Thursday, May 3, 2018

Radio Show Transcript - My Experience with Transformation Costa Rica - Recorded April 6, 2018

My Experience with Transformation Costa Rica - Recorded April 6, 2018


To get to the web page of the radio show, click here.

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Please remember this is a transcript of a radio show that airs live every Friday and is also podcasted.  Spelling and punctuation may be affected.

00:00:27;02 - 00:06:59;19
Rick A. Morris: And welcome to another edition of the Work Life Balance. We're coming to you live from Greensboro North Carolina. I had to make a trip for the weekend to do some work. So not maintaining my own Work Life Balance but happy to be here happy to be with you guys. And it's just me today as I tease this show last week we're going to be talking about my personal experiences with transformation. Costa Rica. So I did a lot of talks about you know preparing for this trip. I went on the trip. I've definitely come back a different person from the trip. And so I wanted to lead you through that. But first you know we've had a really exciting announcement last week. If you missed it we did completely relaunch Rickamorris.com. So we've got some new exciting products that are out there so for the first time ever. You know a lot of this came from the John Maxwell team and the people that I've been working with in one of the biggest influences in my life over the last three or four years has been the power of mentorship and in really having somebody speak into me and really helped me grow my influence and understand how to influence it. And quite frankly I think the greatest power in project management is the power of influence. And so as I started to look I actually started to google and see anybody who was doing any kind of direct mentorship or guidance for the project management community directly. And nobody was. So we've created a product to do that. And so if you can visit Rickamorris.com there's two different products out there. One one of them is based on my book which is Project Management That Works that's been out there for 10 years. It's been a best seller but as I've shared on the show before too I've changed a lot in the last 10 years so what I do is actually it's 8 hours of video of us teaching the book. But generally when you get me in a seminar I'm talking about formulas and I'm talking about how I use Microsoft Project I'm talking about all these different things that I do in my career. But it's very difficult to show you that in a seminar. Well what we've done with this video series is actually sit down and show you. So not only do you get the teaching you get. What has changed in the last 10 years from when I wrote the book. And then we also then show you and give you all the different formulas and tools and techniques that I've used over the last 20 years. So for instance when I talk about a real risk assessment I give the database that I created. I show you how I utilize it. I give you all the formulas behind the scenes and I do that from a seminar but it's very difficult to sit down and get to the nitty gritty and then all the videos are recorded into like 10 to 15 minute segments so that it's easy to consume. You don't have to give up the whole Saturday to kind of go through this. So when you're looking for a specific thing you want to learn about Project Status reports or you want to figure out how to add risk to a project plan or any of those different things it's built for reinforcement so that's one of the products we release. The other one is mentorship. So we're building a community of like minded people. That we can really dive in and talk about how to not only grow your influence but utilize your influence in an ever changing marketplace. So the way that we manage projects 20 years ago is not the way that we should manage projects 10 years ago and it's certainly not the way that you manage projects today yet most of the guides in the books the way they're written were written in a specific way. So this is going to be ongoing learning and direct mentorship about how things are changing and what we can do and different tools and techniques and so there'll be 24 lessons a year in this mentorship program as well as 24 Live calls and what's going to be cool about the live calls is not only will we reinforce the learning but will also give you an opportunity to have direct Q and A. So that whatever issues you're having in your current job are or you know learning paths or just anything that you want to explore we're going to be there for you so you can find all of those at Rickamorris.com. So we're really really excited about that. We just launched March 30 first and so far things have really blown up for us so we're really really excited. And then if either one of those don't sound good to you then you can just simply join our main mailing list by getting out to Rickamorris.com and I sent about 4 emails a week just about thoughts and things that you know are coming up but specific to the project management market so we hope you'll join us on that journey. So back to the topic of what we're going to be talking about here. So first let's define it. First let's talk about John's journey in. You know it's taken me a while to really kind of wrap my head around all of this but in working with John Maxwell John had an organization called Equip and what Equip was really designed to do was train leaders in the church organization and a lot of you may or may not know but John's very very faith based and he was training leaders and they had a goal to train church leaders in every country on the planet. And that of course was unheard of nobody had ever tried to do that. It was something that. You know most people thought was was a lofty goal and so they got to a point where I think that they had maybe 30 countries left and in those countries were like you know very dangerous countries we're talking like Yemen and Afghanistan. Some of these others but they pushed through and they actually accomplish that goal. And so John started to think about you know what's next. And that's where the vision of transformation came from in of course I'm paraphrasing this for because I can talk about this for years but the vision of transformation came and what he wanted to do was start a movement that was bigger than him bigger than all of us. So what does it really mean to transform a country. And so what he started to talk about was aligning the Seven Streams of influence. And so when we start talking about the Seven Streams of influence we're talking about government talking about arts you're talking about education. You're right about the media you're talking about the business you're talking about church in your town about family. So those are your Seven Streams of influence and also making sure that within the government you have buy in all the way to the top which is the president of the country and so they started to align all these different factors of what they would need buy in from to come and do a transformation. It's how we go about transformation is through roundtables and teaching people roundtables in talking about universal laws and values. So those universal laws are around you know listening.

00:06:59;29 - 00:07:29;26
Rick A. Morris: And forgiveness and attitude and things like that. And so there are 16 10 universal laws and 6 things based on intentional living that are trained within these roundtables. And so what we do as coaches at the John Maxwell team is we actually sign up. We pay our own way. We volunteer our time and we go to the countries that have invited us and we have to have an invitation of the president of the country for us to come plus the Seven Streams of influence have to be signed on to do this.

00:07:30;16 - 00:08:36;28
Rick A. Morris: And we go and so when we go we actually are training facilitators on how to do the roundtables and train them in the process and how to do this and really it's just getting everybody talking about aligning yourself or centering yourself on these universal values. And so when we're done we had you know we would train say 15000 people which is what we did in Costa Rica. Now those 15000 people each now are in charge of a roundtable themselves which is five to eight people per roundtable. And so they're now training or leading through over the next 16 weeks 65000 people. And so what we're looking for is using Malcolm Gladwell tipping point of getting 10 percent of the population to have gone through this roundtable process. And from there starting to see what metrics and factors that we can start to track to start to see what kind of impact that would make on an entire population and country. What an incredible thing to be a part of right. I mean that's that's what I did.

00:08:36;29 - 00:10:53;25
Rick A. Morris: So the first country was was Guatemala and then they did Paraguay and already in Guatemala and Paraguay you're starting to see the benefits of what was happening including now there is a leadership curriculum that has been written for students around the 16 values and in intentional living that's going to be part of what is taught to high school students and kids of all ages actually. But it's going to be part of the official curriculum so that every student is going to be trained within these as part of their general education in Guatemala and in Paraguay we're talking about millions of kids in the next generation. Talking about universal values. I mean we can't wait to see what's happening. So Costa Rica was the third country that we were invited to him with the first opportunity that I had and a chance to go participate. So off we go. So you get off the plane you're picked up you end up at this hotel. And to be honest you have no idea what you're walking into and even some of the people that were in Guatemala Paraguay. The first thing that they're telling you is every country is different. So the way it worked the process all that kind of stuff different but the coolest thing is is that most of the people that are there with you have been people that that are part of this John Maxwell experience with me. They're already family. So you're in there with people that feel like family your closest friends and you're in this country and you're all in it together. Right we've all signed up we're ready to go. Everybody supercharged. But I will take a side note right here because it was a funny story. But you just recognize the impact and the things that you take for granted. So the very first night we're having dinner and there was a guy that was serving you know. There was several people that were bringing food to us and that kind of stuff and this guy had this plate of churros in one of my best friends in the John Maxwell team Sheri Griffin. She didn't want a churro. She just didn't want one. And this gentleman was so nice and he was so sweet and he just kept offering her one because he felt like she got missed.

00:10:53;28 - 00:11:05;21
Rick A. Morris: And so we nicknamed him the churro pusher and it was just a joke and so he came over and took a picture with Sheree with a whole platter of churros in front of her.

00:11:05;23 - 00:13:04;28
Rick A. Morris: We took a picture and we posted that on Facebook and the John Maxwell thing there was like one of the first pictures that came out of Costa Rica and people were hungry to see what was happening. And so that particular picture got liked and forwarded and all kinds of stuff. Well the next morning I bumped into the guy and I just showed him what we had done. And he was so touched by that he was just so touched that that we posted that but that so many people would like that picture and that so many people would share the picture. And from that point forward every time I saw him he come up and hug me and say God bless you Rick. And I was I was blown away by it because we were being silly and you know really just not even thinking about it and that's a normal everyday occurrence for us. But to him that made him feel extra special and you know he was doing his job and we were we were having fun with them. And he became our guy. But you know just that that one moment in the fact that he felt fame famous within the John Maxwell team for a second meant the world to him. And it just that was like the first moment for me to sit back for a second go wait a minute we're we're really doing something here. So it's incredible. And that was just the start. We were then visited by the vice mayor of Costa Rica who happened to be married to the president of Congress who was incredible and then trained by Mike who really took care of us and was our first entry into seeing Juan who is the personal translator to John Maxwell. So those are some of the players that we'll talk about. Also Barry Smith was there which he was incredible throughout this whole thing. But that's where we are. We were there on the first night. We're trying to figure it out. We've met Mike we've met Juan there.

00:13:04;29 - 00:13:13;22
Rick A. Morris: My people are there and we're all just confused. And we're going to leave it right there while we take our first break. We'll be right back with the Work Life Balance. Rick Morris.

00:13:18;24 - 00:13:51;14


00:16:04;27 - 00:16:24;03
Rick A. Morris: Now back to the Work Life Balance all right we're back to the Work Life Balance and we're talking about transformation. Costa Rica and just kind of my personal experience as what it was like what our experience was like so we left off. It was it was night and we just got there. I got some food. Everybody's kind of getting acclimated.

00:16:24;22 - 00:16:43;15
Rick A. Morris: So we wake up the next morning and the first day is training. So they're training us on how to train everybody else to be facilitators so we're actually going through the process that we're going to be training everybody else on. For the most part you know I'm going to cut a lot of that out. So that's training. We're there.

00:16:43;22 - 00:16:57;15
Rick A. Morris: But but it's incredible Mike that trained us is is one of the most incredible facilitators I've ever got a chance to see and work with. He's done thousands of roundtables and it certainly shows.

00:16:57;23 - 00:17:08;15
Rick A. Morris: And so then becomes this envelope dropped so again every country being different this was a new thing that they're doing. And I think this was the brainchild of Barry Smith.

00:17:08;15 - 00:19:15;12
Rick A. Morris: I'm not sure but they then pass out these envelopes and everybody gets these envelopes and they tell you not to open them and then when you do it's kind of like Christmas. But this is kind of your first inclination as to what your schedule is going to be like and everybody's kind of comparing it was kind of cool is kind of like getting your your class schedule when you're in school or whatever. And so it either will tell you. You know it has the days. But I'll tell you there have a company training which is just generic that means you're going out and doing a roundtable or there were special color cards that meant you had a special event so you know could be the university their soccer federation or the orphanage or something of that sort. But nobody knew what that meant. No nobody nobody knew anything still at this point. So we go through training and then that night there was an official party in which we met our translators for the first time. And so these translators were all from Costa Rica and they were all volunteers as well. So they were taking time off of work. They were doing things to you know help out as well and being official translator and they had to go through training. And so this was the first time we were all getting together to meet John came in and spoke to us and we got to hear from Mark Cole and several other people. And so that night wraps. And now it's the next morning and you're kind of ready to go. Now when they say it's organized chaos. That's exactly what they were talking about. And you know I was pretty prepared for that. So you kind of number one you have no idea where you're going. So you know you have a card in my card for the know at 6:00 a.m. you know be ready to go. And so you go in you have breakfast and when they say whenever you're ready get in line. And so you get in line. And so then they just started saying two coaches four coaches three coaches. And then you'd go down and get into another line and then you're paired up with a translator and you know off you go. And so two coaches and a translator jumped in and they had us doing pair coaching because we were teaching two lessons so one coach would do one lesson one coach would do the other and you jump in and you go you'd just jump in a car.

00:19:15;13 - 00:25:32;23
Rick A. Morris: And so our first training was was a small church and the pastor of the church was driving us he took us there. And so Juan Diego was our translator so you get to start to meet them get to know them start talking about how it's going to go kind of set up the training of that stop and then you show up. So you have no idea how many people are going to be there. You know what the church is going to look like any of that stuff. And so there's about 10 people at the church and it's our first training. And what an incredible experience. Let me let me just go and say the roundtable experience is powerful because you're not there to coach you're not there to teach you're there to experience and you're there to actually be the leader of the experience which means also kind of digging into your self. And so the two lessons that we were training or teaching at this point the facilitation process was on attitude and forgiveness. And so there was just incredible experiences that were coming out of that. And so when we were getting an attitude and I'll go ahead and just be transparent. So when you're going in and into one of the portions of the Roundtable what you do is you rate yourself from one to 10. And as I'm being jovial and being me and I'm actually in my presentation mode. So I said so you guys feel like I've got a pretty good attitude. And I said so I rated myself three and they all look shocked and I said because right before I came to Costa Rica I was trying to do a product launch and my son came into the office and you know he kind of startled me and I snapped at him. And so you know at that moment at that time I was and I didn't like my attitude. I didn't have the attitude I needed for my son at that time. And so they started to get the process. It's not like your overall attitude all day everyday it's about specific instances and then what the roundtable really asks you to do is to pick a specific time with a specific person and the whole point is that small actions lead to great change. And so you know us as facilitators were modeling the behaviors so I said as soon as I get home from Costa Rica I'm going to take my son into the office and apologize to him for that and work on the attitude. So that shows them what it's what it's all about. And then when you get to forgiveness that's a whole other story right. So that's where you know you really start to see some of the breakthrough even with the facilitators and the power of the Roundtable process. So we work in the small church. It's incredible. And the bond that you build with people so Juan Diego he he hits me on Facebook like probably every other day. So he's checking in with me. Tell me about the Roundtable's he's leading. We're talking his friends. And you know these bonds that you build with these people and just you know I spent four hours with the guy. But we feel like family because not only is the experience incredible but but it accelerates that that timeline that you do to build bonds with people. So that's my very first training so as I'm coming back I'm recognizing and so I have a color card in it's university. And so I start asking around and I'm like whoa what does university mean. And so I'm finding out that universities is an opportunity to go here. John speak but it's kind of like an event where we're just sitting there and John speaking and while you know I relish the opportunity to hear John Maxwell speak I've heard John Maxwell speak quite a bit and I'm there to train to facilitate to do these roundtables so I trade cards I was like you know who wants to go to the university and somebody is like I do. And I was like great here's my card I'll go back out. So I I turned around go right back out and do another roundtable. And so the second roundtable that we do turns out to be this small company and they were called Brain innovations. There was like six people. And what I loved about them so much was that the guy that drive it as he so worried that he's wasting our time because there was only six people that he prepared a busy road chart for me to show that the six people that we were training the six to eight people that they'd already signed up for their roundtables that they were going to be doing roundtables with. And then the impact that those people from their roundtables were going to be having and how that was going to impact like 235 people. And I was I was blown away by that. I was blown away by. He was already showing me his leadership side that what we were about to do in the next three hours was going to impact 235 people in Costa Rica. And so we were like lets go. And what was also very cool was I got to go out and coach with a guy by the name of Tony Sims. And so Tony and I are acquaintances on the John Maxwell team like we see each other and I am sees we know each other we talk right. It's all small talk. That kind of stuff but I get to watch this guy in action and then he pulled the move and it's his story to tell not mine. I just want to say that when he was coaching in the introspective moment he had with them blew me away to the point that when we were sharing stories that night I had to I had to recognize him. It was awesome to be a part of that it was so cool that I got to be there for that and it was. It bonded me and Tony because Tony was so good. I learned so much from watching him do that. And I just thought it was a really cool thing. And then our translator Ivanna. So she ends up calling her friend and saying you've got to be a translator you've got to come down here and Ivana actually hit me up on Facebook Messenger night before last tell me about the roundtable she's setting up so I mean these people are incredible. They're so excited. And they're sitting down talking about values. Then you translate that to the experience that you have here in the United States that when you start talking about this stuff people shut you down. So I mean this this is incredible. And this is only my first day. So when we come back from break I'll tell you about date to your list and into the Work Life Balance with Rick bore's.


00:28:33;22 - 00:28:52;21
Rick A. Morris: And we're back to the Work Life Balance so we're on our third segment of Costa Rica. And before I wrap up day one as we're getting back to that evening after day one when we say it's all hands on deck kind of thing. I saw some of the craziest things that get a great picture where it looked like some books were leaped off and some coaches needed it.

00:28:52;21 - 00:41:40;11
Rick A. Morris: So there's a guy on this little Suzuki Motorcycle like one of the fast ones and he's duct taping a box of books onto the back seat so he could deliver these books to the coaches that needed him and I snapped a picture of that. I mean you just saw all kinds of crazy things of everybody getting you know involved pitching in that kind of stuff. So as we go to day to day two I was on deck in the morning and so I didn't go anywhere in the morning so in the afternoon they're saying OK we need eight coaches for translators. And they jump in this van. So as we jump on the band there's five coaches three translators and everybody's asking where the books are. And the driver said no the books are already on site. So we say fine. So we show up to this beautiful private Catholic school. And so as we show up we asked where the books are they say there's no books. OK no problem. And what did the director of marketing that worked for the school she could translate so she ended up being my translator. So we divide everything up. We said no problem. So we had one of the Spanish books with us. We said we'll just go make copies of the lessons that we need and we'll get the books you know sent over here so we get on the horn we get the books coming be uber and there's nothing the printer that can make copies is like taken for like the next hour. So he said No problem. So we scanned it and we put it up on the projector so that we could start doing what we needed to do. So it was an amazing group effort of everybody just kind of pulling together. And so in one of the things that we do when we're teaching these classes and so in this case now there's five of us. So there's two coaches in one room and then three coaches each have their own room and there's about 25 30 people in each room. So one of the things that we do in the roundtable as well when we're talking about attitude is we start talking about you know who do we know that that exhibits that attribute and who do you admire and why. And so in this case you know I chosen a person that's on the John Maxwell team with me and again I don't want to tell her story it's her story but she's just been through a lot of issues and she just happened to be with us. But she's one of the most amazing bright lights that you would ever meet. And her name is Amy. And so I was telling my class and so here's exactly what I told the class. I said look I said there's an incredible coach that's here you know with me. I said as a matter of fact she's next door and I said she's had an incredible amount of issues in her life and only person that will really you know burden you with their issues are the people that can't carry them on their own two shoulders. And I said she's not like that. I said if she walks into this room it's like the sun has come into the room I said she's so positive she's so incredibly awesome. And so to me that's who I admire an attitude. I said it just like that and then I said but you know what's weird is that I've been using this you know since I've been here in Costa Rica. She just happens to be next door. True true. You know a luck of the draw. So if you want to meet her you'll meet her after class. So I say that we go through the whole training. We finish and we actually finished about 10 minutes earlier than Amy and her class dead and the whole class sat there and waited. And so I went and grabbed Amy brought her into the room and immediately they just made this line and they all started to hug her and it was just an incredible moment that really moved me it moved me move the class in. You know I've got tons of pictures and video of that but it was incredible moment. So Amy came back to me. She goes what did you tell them. What did you say. And I said I didn't tell them any of your story. I just told them that I admire you for the attitude. It was just an incredible moment. So that night we ended up going to the National Theater and at the National Theater John spoke and this is the first time I got to see John and Juan worked together. And you actually can go out to YouTube or go to Facebook and you can look up Mahadev most Costa Rica on Facebook and you can see this but John and Juan working together is like a ballet and wannabe and John's translator. It is absolutely 100 percent like a ballet. It's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen in a job. One actually can do John's you know every speech they've been doing it together for 15 years. But it is it is one of the coolest things I think I've ever seen in you know knowing and I've seen John so many times now we kind of know what he's going to say. But to see Juan interact with him and be translated It was it was an extremely cool moment. So that night you know we all go back we hang out. And so it's the next day. Now the next day as I'm getting paired up with a translator We're going to go we find out we're going to a hardware store like a home depot. And as we're going into this home depot it turns out that my translator is the friend that Ivana called. So my translator on day one that was at the small business with us when she called her friend her friend ended up signing up had to go through training on day two. And then day three she gets paired with me. So again just incredible coincidences like that were working throughout this whole Costa Rica trip. So she ends up getting paired with me and my friend Randy Wheeler. And so again Randy Wheeler and I know each other we've talked with each other we've shared some great moments that I see. But to watch him coach watch him do what he does. You just have a newfound respect for these people and you just get to learn from them. We had two different styles so it was great for the room and then it turns out that our translator and I don't want to say her name because she she was kind of withholding this information but she worked for the U.S. embassy and then ended up signing up the U.S. embassy to go through roundtable's in Costa Rica. And again you're just sitting there just blown away by how hungry this entire country was for this material. And to talk about values and to go through a process so that afternoon I was supposed to go to the soccer stadium. And again I saw that as an opportunity I asked is it is this John speaking or is this some special event. They said it was John speaking. I said OK so I traded it out so I could go back out again and do another roundtable. And as we jump in the car we jump in a van. There's four coaches I said Where's the books. And they said the books are on site. I said no I've been through this before so let's just go ahead and put a couple boxes of books in the back of the van this time. And it turns out I get to go back to the same private Catholic school that I was at the day before. And again all of this is random. You have no idea where you're going how it's working out. It's all a timing thing. It's just it's it's absolutely 100 percent organized chaos. So when I get back I start bumping into all the people that were in my class the day before and it's like a high school reunion. I mean these people are hugging me. They're coming out and they're running up and talking to us and we had people from the director of finance all the way down to the janitorial staff in my class. And so they're all coming over and all of a sudden I feel like I'm the I'm the tour guide for the school because I've been there before. And so I'm showing to everybody where you know where to go and I get to run into the director of marketing who is my translator again. And so this time we ended up training all the teachers. So we worked with all the teachers have a fantastic time. And then they did a special presentation for us where we actually got to tour the school and meet a lot of the children they had some of the students come in and talk to us about their their lives their school. It was an incredible event. And so then that kind of wrapped up all the Roundtables for us. So that night there was kind of a big party for us. But then a lot of us had paid to stay an extra day to do what we called the service project. So the service project we all split up and went to schools that were in underprivileged areas and we worked with schools so they split us up into four groups two of the groups started the service project while the other two groups split up and went and worked with classrooms for two class periods and then we swapped. And so we ended up completely repainting this entire outside patio area for the school. And then when we were working with the classes just completely fell in love with these kids. And I think every one of us picked out two or three that we wanted to bring home with us. And every one of us had a moment or two where these kids just just came to our heart because for these kids that we were working with. That was most likely their only meal that they were getting that day. And the only time anybody was kind of showing any kind of care or love for them. And so it's amazing that in you know spending an hour with them that they can touch you that much. But that experience in working with them and doing that service project affected me deeply deeply to the point that I couldn't wait to come back and talk to my kids and show them the pictures and you know just be with them. So that's the trip. In a nutshell a lot happened in four days that went by so fast. But you had 250 coaches all of us had the stories. You know I had friends of mine were training like the TSA. As a matter of fact as I was boarding the plane to come back some inline in showing my passport to get on the plane to leave Costa Rica and the TSA agent asked me if I knew the coach that trained them. And I did. And he pulled me out of line and hugged me and just said you know what an amazing time it was to have John and the coaches and everybody here. So the impact I know that we made even a short time but we kind of just descended and just just hit that country like like nobody's business and we're just everywhere at once. But then we were gone. And so now you have these you know 15000 people that were trained and in a most Costa Rica taking it further now and we know that there are 65000 people that are going to this process that we're starting. And so just to know to be a part of that and just know that you were there and so the phrase that we all left with was you know we were in the room we were in the room when that that started we were in the room to kick this whole thing off. And coming back now in kind of re-entering the United States the brief story that I had and I shared it briefly but every time we talked to somebody in Costa Rica and told them what we were doing and we had stories of the Uber driver that was taking somebody hearing about what we were doing and coming back and signing up his company. He was doing side side work for Uber but happened to work for a company signed up his whole company. I mean everybody that we talked to in touch Costa Rica wanted to be a part of this and then I come back to the United States and I'm working with an executive who says he can't he can't communicate to his team. So he sat down and said hey let's do a disk profile so that we can at least find out what the general communication styles are of your team. Now we can start to work with that and start to do some individual coaching and that entire executive team goes to H.R. block set right. You start to look at the differences in culture one that these people are talking about forgiveness and in listening and attitude. And we're just trying to figure out how do you communicate in there like now. We don't want to talk about that joke. So the re-entry for me was very difficult and I've been talking to a lot of the people that experience Costa Rica with their feeling the same way. So it's incredible just to kind of think about that and I'll leave you with that thought.

00:41:40;12 - 00:41:49;07
Rick A. Morris: We're going to do our final segment on the Work Life Balance in just a second but we've got some commercials for you to listen to your listeners to the Work Life Balance with Rick Morris


00:44:46;17 - 00:45:28;19
Rick A. Morris: We're back and I talk to very very quickly and very very fast about transformation. Costa Rica but if you want to be a part of a trip like that if you want to find out more you can certainly hit me up at Twitter at Rycke Morris. Find me at Rørik at Rick Morris dot com or armourers at R-squared consulting dot com. Find out how to become a member of the John Maxwell team because we have 29 other countries at this point that have invited us. Now they've got to go through various things before we'll come. So we don't know where the next country is but we know we're going. And so I can tell you at this point I'm not going to miss another one of these transformation trips wherever they call us wherever they want us to go.

00:45:28;19 - 00:48:32;02
Rick A. Morris: I'm going to be there because as is my friend John Steinbeck who just came into the room has reminded me our favorite quote from John Maxwell is once you taste significant success just never will satisfy. And. I think that was a significant moment. I need to use the last portion of this show just to kind of get this off my chest so I don't mean to be a downer but I need to pay tribute. We lost somebody in the R-squared family this week. So a lot of you guys that know me in a lot of the guys that have been around us over the last couple of years. Mike Stephens passed away this week. He was the V.P. of sales and development for me. But more than that you know he was the best man in my wedding and a great friend for 20 years. So I just had a couple of stories I wanted to share. You know I met this kid when we were servers at Chili's. And I just quit managing restaurants and decided you know I didn't want to be manager of a restaurant anymore and so I just got a server and bartender job again and I heard this guy walking through saying where's the Hobart. And unless you've worked for steak and ale or Bennigan's nobody really knows what Hobart is but I knew that guy had worked somewhere and I'd worked and we bonded immediately. He introduced me to his church and we became quick friends and I was getting married about a year after that and he was the best man at my wedding and then we you know like all things do you he came in and out of our lives. One of my favorite moments is. My wife and I decided to go see local theatre. He loved musical theatre being part of that and we talked to a couple of years Mike and I and we show up to a local theatre version of The Full Monty in which Mike was the lead and I was like I'm about to see more of Mike and I think I'd want to. And so I surprised him backstage in between acts and he then moved to Texas and again we lost touch for a while. And then a couple of years back I look over and carpool and I see Mike and carpool and I just joined the John Maxwell team. And so I approached him in the car we went had lunch and I told him you know I don't know what you're going to do for me but I know you're supposed to work with me. And I hired him a couple of months later brought him into the John Maxwell team with me. And we shared a lot of fantastic moments together. And so he leaves behind a wife and two incredible children who he loved absolutely dearly. So he's going to be sorely missed for our organization. He's going to be missed by us so you know I love you brother. And we're thinking of you as they as they laid him to rest today.

00:48:32;17 - 00:51:34;13
Rick A. Morris: Upcoming on the show. We've got a lot of cool things that are going to be happening to this show specifically. So coming up next week we're going to have the real life cue on the show Mike O’Brochta. If you missed that show you can go back and search that actually titled it The Real Life Q when we say that he literally is the project manager that makes all the cool gadgets for the CIA. He's got a new book out. I was hoping the book would tell me who killed Kennedy or some of the other cool facts but I don't think it's that kind of book. But he's going to be revealing what his new book is and talking to us next week the week after that and have Inge Rock on the show which is a fireball you're definitely don't want to miss. You don't want to miss the English rock show. She's going to be calling in from overseas but she helps small businesses really define what they want to do and really help Breen's people. She also is a prominent member of the John Maxwell team. And of course that leads to the twenty seventh which we hope we're going to have a couple of additional announcements on top of the fact that we're going to have Maria Concecao on which we talked about quite a bit from the Maria Cristina Foundation. She's got seven in his book A World Records. She's a powerhouse herself born hoping and I don't want to reveal too much but I like to go ahead and put things out there because that commits me to it but we're hoping for a little bit of a format change for that. So we're working on that technology now. But there may be potential that you could not only listen to us but attend that live and watch me interview her directly on screen. So watch for details to come out for that. That's going to be announced on our pages. The Voice America page that will be announced through my Twitter and Facebook but this is going to be an interview. Don't want to miss. And it's also going to be hopefully a new format change that will take not only place on that show but from that point forward. So we're looking forward to some exciting things. I actually just signed your contract to do this for another year. So we're so excited. We'll be doing this for another year as a show so if you love us we appreciate it. The numbers have been incredible as we sat down and looked at everything. The audience is actually grown by 56 percent year over year and that means you guys are listening. So I love you for it. I appreciate it. Keep talking to us. Keep hit me at Briquet Morris on Twitter. Are Morris at R-squared consulting dot com and please don't forget to check out the new Rick Morris dot com for all the products that we talked about in the beginning of the show. But for now I'm going to head off to North Carolina as we build some new exciting products with our great friend John Stanback so be watching for those to come out here shortly as well. So for that we're going to give you back your Friday. We love you guys for hanging out with us on the Work Life Balance and we'll talk to you next Friday with Michael Obracta the real life. Q You've been listening to Rick Morris on the Work Life Balance.


Monday, April 23, 2018

Radio Show Transcript - The Man Who Changed My Career - Rob Thomsett - Recorded March 23, 2018

The Man Who Changed My Career - Rob Thomsett - Recorded March 23, 2018


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Please remember this is a transcript of a radio show that airs live every Friday and is also podcasted.  Spelling and punctuation may be affected.

FULL TRANSCRIPT (with timecode)

00:00:27;06 - 00:04:54;12
Rick A. Morris: And welcome to another Friday edition of the work life balance. I'm Rick Maher is your host and you know this was a supremely hyped show. I was super hyped super ready because we were going to have The Legend Rob Thomsett on the line with us. And we for some reason haven't connected. So maybe he'll dial in maybe he won't. If so we'll get him reconnected. But you know Rob is somebody that I look up to and absolutely 100 percent changed my career. So we're going to be watching out for him. He's in Australia. Time zones. We've been exchanging information. We were we were all set to go. But you know what. We're in project management things happen. We should be ready to go if it pops and that's great. If not no worries. But I'm back from Costa Rica which you know I wasn't on the show last week. We did a replay because I was in Costa Rica with John Maxwell and 250 of now people that I call family and friends on a transformation trip. And so we will actually devote this hour then to the Costa Rica trip and what an incredible trip it was. What an incredible experience it was for us. And I I just can't I can't even describe how incredible this whole thing was for us. The whole point of the trip itself right is transformation. And when you hear somebody say something like that they're going to go transform a country. And that was the vision that John had. What does that mean. What does it really mean to go transform a country. So let's explain kind of the statistics and things that we're talking about. So first what it really means is what we were doing was training facilitators and in training those facilitators we were trying to make sure that they were ready and prepared to train other facilitators for transformation in using Mac. Malcolm Gladwell the tipping point. We want to get 10 percent of the population of Costa Rica sitting down and discussing values we want to make sure that they can sit down and discuss values and have open conversations about values to essentially usher in the next generation. That's what we mean by transformation. And so we trained 15000 people in the course of a week through roundtable methods of values. And we we sat down and did attitude and forgiveness and train these facilitators and now for the next 16 weeks those 15000 people will be working with 65000 people that are already signed up and working and will go through a 16 week program talking about 10 universal laws and then six laws of intentional living. And talking about how small actions can lead to great change. And at the end of every roundtable. So in a roundtable you discuss one of the values for instance we talk about attitude. They read a lesson on attitude they discuss what is the lesson spoke to them and then they rate themselves on their current feelings about attitude. So from one to ten how do you feel then they go through and start to talk about what benefits would you get from raising your value from forward six or six to eight. Who do you admire that has that attitude has a great attitude. And why do you admire them. And then finally what small action are you going to take to improve for the next week and then when they come back the next week they'll talk about how did that action go and what was the result and then they'll take a new value. And so that's essentially what we were doing and training and it was absolutely phenomenal experience to be a part of to to be just first of all welcomed as we were welcomed in Costa Rica. You know I was talking to another John Maxwell coach today. And what we were just kind of talking about the difference between you know organizations that we work with here in the states and organizations that we were working there in Costa Rica.

00:04:54;12 - 00:05:01;18
Rick A. Morris: Now I'll explain. So first was give you an example here in the United States.

00:05:01;19 - 00:06:18;22
Rick A. Morris: So this just literally happened this week that I got back from Costa Rica. So I was working with an executive team and the executive that I was working with was telling me that he was dealing with a lot of attitude issues with his leadership team and they were having a lot of communication breakdowns and I'm a certified behavior consultant and we have a tool called disk profiling that helps teams communicate with each other and helps identify what my communications style is and what your communication style is and helps us kind of build common ground. And it's a really cool tool and I've talked about it on the show in the past. So I suggested Hey let's do this. And you know I said we can even do it in the sense that you know we've got this tool that we're rolling out and I can use it to say you know to understand what kind of reports we need to build whether they need to be highly detailed or whether they need to be more graphical that it will help us understand what type of information we need to give you as a leadership team to make sure that we're communicating effectively. So it's not so much about you know hey we want to find out who you are it was more about how do we communicate effectively with you. And so he thought it was a great idea.

00:06:18;24 - 00:06:30;22
Rick A. Morris: We went and got codes and we went and start to roll this out to the team and the team went to H.R. and blocked even taken the survey.

00:06:30;25 - 00:06:54;06
Rick A. Morris: They were so concerned that somebody might find out that they're tough to deal with. They were so concerned about their own internal growth there. I don't know what they were concerned about to be honest with you though they wouldn't even sit down and take a little 24 question thing so that they could figure out what their communication style is and how to communicate with other people.

00:06:54;27 - 00:06:57;24
Rick A. Morris: And I was blown away by that right.

00:06:57;24 - 00:09:41;15
Rick A. Morris: I mean especially when you're when you should be constantly looking for opportunities to grow and constantly looking inside yourself to find ways to become better especially if you're a leader. Right. Leaders need to be servant leaders and leaders need to be looking inside themselves. And so I'm coming off of this incredible week where a transformation is within me and I'm watching these people you know just absolutely 100 percent breakdown So contrast that to Costa Rica where we give them these values and immediately when we give them these values they sit down and as soon as they see one of these things as soon as they see one the first thing they want to do is sign up their entire company. And so they're coming back to the hotel that we're working in and signing up company after company. I had one lady that was working with us who was our interpreter she was working at the U.S. embassy and as soon as we were done she was like wow my entire company needs to be involved in this and came back and signed up her entire company and we had story after story after story after story of how the Costa Rican people were embracing this so much and wanted to grow so quickly. It was absolutely insane. And so when we look at this and compare and contrast what an incredible incredible opportunity it was for us to really witness a an organization a group of people that really wanted to grow and really want to change. And that's why it's it's going like wildfire through Costa Rica since being back. I've gotten countless you know e-mails and Facebook messages and texts and all that kind of stuff from people that we worked with who are thanking us for coming over and sharing this information with them. And at the same time I'm watching people I'm working with here in the states who are just like I don't need that stuff. Who needs though. Who needs to work on an attitude. Why. Why. Why do I need to work on my listening and just to compare and contrast was was breathtaking to me. So Costa Rica when we talk about transformation it was transformational for me just to see it to be a part of it. I think I learned more from them than they learned from me. I can promise you that. And it's a trip that I absolutely want 100 percent will never ever ever forget. So we're going to take our first break right here. I actually think I saw a phone call come through. We'll see if we can connect with Rob if not we'll continue the story with Costa Rica. You're listening to the work life balance with Rick Morris.


00:13:42;25 - 00:16:18;22
Rick A. Morris: And we are back to the work life balance that we are managing all kinds of things right here we're actually trying to work some magic and get Rob on the line. I talked to him on the break as we're trying to do things overseas and I think we're going to get him on the line here in just a second. But coming back just to wrap up the Costa Rica trip so that was brought together by Mejeremos Costa Rica the John Maxwell leadership Foundation and the John Maxwell team. So there were 250 coaches that that actually paid their own way to go over there and be a part of that trip. It was organized chaos is exactly what it was is we actually ended up joining in and would stand in a line and they would just tell us you know four coaches and you jump in a car you have no idea where you would go. So I ended up in a school. I ended up at a church. I ended up at a hardware store like a Home Depot. Worked at the embassy. We worked all over the place and had an opportunity to just train these people. Which again was was just a life changing experience. So if we ever have ever have an opportunity to do something like that let's do it. So I'm going to transition into a story here really quickly and we're going to do our best here with the connections that we have. But for me there was a point early in my career really around 2002 where I decided or was thinking of quitting project management it was just you know I was frustrated. Weren't meeting for me. I was frustrated I was done. And so I actually walked through a bookstore and was trying to figure out you know maybe a job title would jump off the page for me or you know maybe I'd see a book or something that would inspire me. And so as I was walking through I found this book called Radical Project Management. And you know that the title itself by that was cool I picked it up started to flip through it and it's the first project management book in my life that ever made me laugh number one but number two spoke to me in a different way than any other project management book ever had. And so I ended up buying the book read it cover to cover and started to put the things in motion a lot of the ideas in motion. And I credit that night in that book for saving my career and putting a lot of the early seeds of my success and project management into practice. And that book was written by Rob Thomsett. Which was why I was so excited to finally get them on the line. So let's see if Rob's There Rob you there.

00:16:20;13 - 00:16:21;26
Rob Thomsett: Can you hear me ok?.

00:16:21;28 - 00:16:24;08
Rick A. Morris: I can hear you. Hi how are you my friend.

00:16:24;08 - 00:16:32;02
Rob Thomsett: I'm just. I'm just as excited as you are and I really really appreciate that feedback.

00:16:32;02 - 00:16:47;09
Rob Thomsett: It means something incredible when something you write actually connects to another person thousands of miles away. So I'm really looking forward to this Rick for sure and we lost this segment so I want to make up for time.

00:16:47;12 - 00:17:09;18
Rick A. Morris: And I'll tell you when you weren't on the line when we got started I was getting texts left and right from my friends. Where's Rob. So we're so excited that we got a chance to connect. Politics. Oh no worries at all. We said you know this is project management 101. This is what we do. Man Yeah we're risk ready is what we are.

00:17:10;09 - 00:17:12;12
Rob Thomsett: Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:17:12;26 - 00:17:43;14
Rick A. Morris: But I want to get into the meat because we've only got so much time with you and I feel like I could fill 12 shows with you and so we're going to have to have you back that's just a no brainer but it'll be a pleasure. The quote that I feel changed my entire outlook and you and I haven't had a chance to prep. We barely even had a chance to talk but the quote that I think changed my entire career was when you wrote that projects fail because of context. Not content would you. Would you explain that to the audience for a show.

00:17:43;14 - 00:19:20;14
Rob Thomsett: Sure. So no projects especially in you know what I call now traditional project manager which has its roots back in construction engineering project management people and tree projects as a system which was you know let's get right let's get the estimates right and let's sort of hunker down and execute and just deliver. But when you actually look at what projects they are in effect very open systems. They're part of a much broader either organizational context or a business context. So when I started looking and observing and being part of very complex projects what was happening in the past I would say but rather that interactions with stakeholders interactions with other approaches interactions with sponsors for example that interactions basically outside the project in its armaments which was the cause of the problem prior to that. So that idea. Halakhic is the lack of space around the project. And that's where you project managers or project ventures have to shift the focus because that's where this all of disruption tends to come from. Not always but in most cases that was the sort of idea that context versus content content what the projects will bring on takes and go with the practical needs.

00:19:21;17 - 00:19:28;06
Rick A. Morris: Yeah I think you're on a cell phone. So we're getting some good feedback here but I'm so sorry.

00:19:28;20 - 00:19:56;12
Rick A. Morris: Yeah yeah. I don't know if you're pacing but the the where we take that to what what. I took that to mean as well as is also contacts to be you know the main data date the mandated budgets the things that just tended not matter whereas you know where we're going to deliver the content. But it made me shift my focus to begin to manage up versus manage down. Does that does that make sense.

00:19:56;20 - 00:20:26;24
Rob Thomsett: Absolutely absolutely. I mean there's there's overwhelming evidence that you know for example the relationship between a project manager or sponsor and I believe this for decades is the single most important relationship are going to Johanes. So in that context of managing up with Rick how he spun to build this trusting relationship is critical to the success of any project.

00:20:30;11 - 00:20:46;07
Rick A. Morris: So with what you wrote with context and content you also just broadened my eyes beyond the the iron triangle with the research you did with Cutter Consortium and so tell the other  listeners a little bit about that.

00:20:46;07 - 00:21:02;09
Rob Thomsett: Sure. And again just to interrupt if I don't come through clearly we are at the age of automation and digital and we've still got still can't get Scott to work on this.

00:21:02;10 - 00:21:06;11
Rob Thomsett: I'm a Mac user if that helps people understand my technical capability.

00:21:06;12 - 00:22:00;25
Rob Thomsett: So what I'm get when you look at what's called the iron triangle which is you know a scope budget and time and you actually start seeing that project in this more broader idea. This is an old lives in this big old world. There are lots of other ways of measuring success. The classic example is that that old joke Rick that the operation was a success and the patient died that people people were looking at the wrong images of sick how a project succeeds because the really interesting out of a project is what happens after those lives and what you know what we're doing as project managers delivering a change in isolation and enter the project successful.

00:22:00;25 - 00:24:09;02
Rob Thomsett: That change has to be sustained and accepted by the stakeholders. Guadalupe would that change so that immediately thinking about you know looking at success from seven different dimensions and I'll come to WA from three to seven. But the first one was you know how are the stakeholders in terms of their relationship to what the projects are doing and what it's delivering. So if the stakeholders are on board it doesn't matter if you Sprite's that the project can succeed longer term and then taking that same view of projects is something that matters beyond the day it goes live. That is the projects are about delivering a sustained change. Then you suddenly realize that project's also about benefits. In other words you know again you're on time and on budget but you don't realize the benefits. So that was a quality issue was always one. And pay them on other people. Now sort of picked that up which is great. You know really the low quality then that can kind of tie the projects successful and that's okay. The car industry in the 70s and 80s is a good example of that. And finally the thing that most people find controversial Rick is I added teams is a consideration. In other words if we look at teams as a group of creative people how they how they feel about the product is equally as important. I've seen projects where the entire team is left after the project went live and the organizations was told that all IP and all that credible creative energy. So again that to me that projects not successful so we end up with this 7 7 dimensions of success stakeholder engagement requirements or scope budget time quality benefits and teams. That's where that came from. And now since I read that book and came up with that model I've seen very few projects successful almost full seven dimensions.

00:24:10;05 - 00:24:42;04
Rick A. Morris: Yeah. And you say that it's controversial right to include the teams but as I've grown as a leader really in the last two or three years in trying to do my personal development that the team satisfaction has been you know number one right. It's all about developing the leaders within the people around you and servant leadership. And really I do want to dive into this with you because you know I've got a lot of friends that are in charge.

00:24:42;04 - 00:24:49;21
Rick A. Morris: I've now become certified in Agile. And everybody thinks Agile is brand new. As of 2001 you were writing about it.

00:24:49;22 - 00:25:07;28
Rick A. Morris: I mean your book was published 2002 which means you know this was back in the day when we really had to work to publish a book right so that means you were writing this in 99 in 2000. So you know you are the first person ever to speak out to meet

00:25:09;16 - 00:26:49;23
Rob Thomsett: And look at one stage they're interconnected Rick because what this has been an ongoing news specifically dramatic turn there's been this cultural war between this view which was evidence probably the best way by things like the Sci. where if you just got the mechanics of project management right then you were doing a good job. And this more let's call it systems approach to project management which said that project management was about the management not the management of artifacts but the management of creativity. And that came to me way way earlier than Radikal project mentioned. I wrote a book which Jordan Press published in and print and print us all in nineteen eighty called people in project management which is long out of print a very small book but it reflected the learning side had from 10 years in the federal government here in Australia are trying project managers. The second sentence in the book says having taught 800 project managers over the last decade. The most important lesson this project mentions all about people and so disputed that this is that especially in projects these plug compatible compounds she just plugging in and that's being really evidenced by some of the social okay.

00:26:50;19 - 00:26:58;22
Rick A. Morris: So I think we've got a caller on the line. Let's go and take the caller and then we'll we'll introduce the question to Rob when we get them back who's on the line.

00:26:58;24 - 00:27:09;02
John Stenbeck: Rick that's John's longtime listener and friend what's up brother. How are you. Good. You're doing good. I think was right I was going to sorry go ahead.

00:27:09;14 - 00:27:12;15
John Stenbeck: I was just saying I think we're trying to re-establish that connection there with Rob.

00:27:13;09 - 00:27:14;15
Rick A. Morris: OK. Yes.

00:27:15;05 - 00:27:34;07
Rick A. Morris: There's Rob and and midsentence I pivoted to a call. I do want to introduce you rob to a dear friend of mine. He's the creator of The Agile Almanac Book One and book to the person that I learned a tremendous amount of Agile too. His name is John Stenbeck so Rob me John John me Rob.

00:27:34;07 - 00:27:34;24
Rob Thomsett: Hey John.

00:27:34;24 - 00:28:21;22
John Stenbeck: Hey Rob nice you I've got to tell you I heard Rick speak so eloquently from a keynote stage about radical project management that I felt compelled to acquire copy and then I acquired a copy. I was blown away as he was starting to say just before you guys dropped off the call about the way back in 2001 you're writing about the free agent army the global economy and the four waves of product management. I mean radical project management was a book written by a prophet as far as I'm concerned. So got to hear your thoughts on the update. Clearly you were correct with free agent and global economy and foodways just would love to hear your thoughts about how that's been sold or what's coming that and then I'll take a look at mine.

00:28:22;19 - 00:30:18;28
Rob Thomsett: John again I thank you for that feedback. It means a lot to me. I think we're right now we're in a really interesting space because Agil now has become as it should of a mainstream idea. And let's switch we'll be happy that that's happened. The question that at all. No matter what variation of that whether it's place or know it covens more or just pure scrum is it is a credibly incredibly aligned way of building creative product. However my concern now is that it's become the silver bullet it's got this almost religious fervor around it and use that that term that yeah that sort of hides the fact that it's fundamentally a major cultural journey. And many traditional organizations are not up to that journey. So I have a concern that some organizations in there's tons of evidence already say we're going to go agile and find out that they're actually not culturally ready for it and abandon what is a really valid approach to doing projects. So I think we're almost like a not a crisis point with some guys to radically rethink how they approach their people how they approach how they source project teams you know cause you've got to have kind of occasional as things so I don't think the battles won yet would be I view John I think we've got a long way to go still before Agile becomes the way most people would and I love that she said that because you know there's two terms that I use on the show all the time.

00:30:18;28 - 00:31:08;07
Rick A. Morris: Rob one is Agile theater which is people who are pretending to be Agile but not doing it right. So they're yeah they're playing out theater and the other is the clown which is you know the tons of consultants out there that have no basis no experience that are that are trying to lead these transformations and producing results like we can't tell you when we're going to be done because we're Agile. I can't tell you how much it's going to cost because we're Agile, all these wonderful new things that are providing great material for books but the horrible results for our organizations in just like software in the Great is like CA PPM Primavera Planview those out there people are saying that software doesn't work. No it works just fine. It's just that just as you said you weren't culturally ready

00:31:08;07 - 00:32:35;06
Rob Thomsett: yeah general audience in your view but you know a lot here in Australia where I'm currently based a lot to the biggest banks and now in American terms that talking organisations of 40000 people have publicly stated from the CEO that they are going to go agile and investing substantial amount of effort into doing that. And you know we're sort of really aware of what's happening internally at both these places and see exactly what you say. They've they've hired consultants who who never worked at the scale it is required that they're not looking through any of the second six. So what happens when you go to jail is where you embed inches. How do you transition all your support systems. Yeah it is really interesting and it brings out what I unfortunately believe is that with this application which is the fact that there are still people who see it that way.

00:32:36;28 - 00:32:49;05
Rick A. Morris: Yeah and again so we're going to make this huge announcement but then we're going to go to the lowest cost providers terms of consultant because you know we don't want to spend that much correct.

00:32:49;06 - 00:33:04;06
Rob Thomsett: Look you know that if you if you go back long enough and unfortunately all I can do that easily you know I want to tell a quick story I've got a minute. Yes please do.

00:33:04;18 - 00:33:39;19
Rob Thomsett: Yes I'm sure you both would love it. The Life of Brian it is a multipart talk. Of course yeah of course yeah. So I use this metaphor a lot. Mindlin Brian is mistaken for the Messiah and he's trying to get away from the soldiers he he gets Gulotta play hard and was and in about four minutes later the saddle falls off and some of us always say that it was so a true symbol of the Messiah had this big fight about what's the true symbol of the Messiah.

00:33:39;24 - 00:33:45;15
Rick A. Morris: Remember that saying yes yeah yeah yeah.

00:33:45;22 - 00:34:57;23
Rob Thomsett: So you were having. I've got clients who are fighting right now with a space you know sky. Their job is better than scrum. And this this happened way back in the late 70s early 80s when structural analysis was the big thing you know doing data fly diagrams Ed Gordon and Tom Dimarco and Gaynor's Sasso and they were actual culprits is about whether that gang of assassins rectangles representation of process was better than Tom DaMarcus circle representation you know and I love this stuff. But what it was underneath it was the fact that whosever you know agile religion was going to make more money and that's the sad thing that is that keeps worrying me about where radicals got to it's now become mainstream which means is now owned by the large consulting companies instead of a group of creative individuals which is where it came from. So it's become institutionalized and that can be the seeds of its failure frankly.

00:34:58;02 - 00:35:18;18
Rob Thomsett: You know one of the things I've seen your your whole model of context and content and I've seen this when is addressing you know the agile thing and like you talk about Agile theatre and those other islands and stuff because organisations simply forget the context.

00:35:18;20 - 00:35:47;06
Rob Thomsett: This is really what's going to have to happen then so hopefully you know cooler heads smarter minds something's going to prevail and we're going to realise that again I'm come back to you know your your free agent army and the global economy context is going to force it but you have to treat human beings as human beings not as cogs in a wheel and so your influence on the way he sees the world and speaks to project management has been profound and so on.

00:35:47;09 - 00:37:09;24
Rob Thomsett: And I don't really care about that but I'm grateful it to me so that got to the real essence here. You've got to the real essence of what our job is about. I was with a client and I've done this a couple of times when we were looking at bringing more agility into the organization. And you guys would have faced this all the time and you would have and you've got this traditional PMO which I'm sure you're familiar with that that has gates and has processes where you've got to insert forms and conform to certain rules before you can move on. And the debate becomes underneath that is a much bigger question which which Agil directly addresses and no one talk about and it comes down to trust us to ultimately what Agil saying is do you trust a group of people who have open flows of information to them to their key business clients to do the right stuff or do you need to still put controls around people because fundamentally you don't trust people and the thing that agile is fundamentally built on to make is this inherent belief that people will do the right thing if you give them the right context.

00:37:09;25 - 00:37:31;02
Rick A. Morris: And to me there are too many organisations who believe that yes so it's theory x theory y and that's my favorite conversation to get into with companies. You know I do a lot of software implementation and so you have the people there like take everything off the screen lock it all down because if they can click it they will and they'll mess it up right.

00:37:31;02 - 00:37:53;12
Rick A. Morris: Or allow them to explore. Allow them to become better allow them to learn. Right. Yet it is so frustrating to watch that super locked down. My favorite is like where can you lock down these dates and it's like well who's going to log in at 3:00 in the morning and go change a bunch of scheduled dates. Like I don't want to look at the project schedule anyway. Come on. Yeah.

00:37:53;20 - 00:38:46;03
Rob Thomsett: Yeah. You know it's it's you know it's interesting and you know the number of times I've said this to executives and watch them watch them struggle. Right. You can see it in their eyes. I say look you got a simple choice to make. You either punish the majority for the behavior of the minority or you accept that the majority of good and deal with the minority by exception and that that fundamental truth is something most organizations. Yeah we look at a Netflix or some of the Spotify they solve that problem. You know they've gone to the assumption that everyone's basically good intent and will deal with what doesn't work on an exception basis but logic corporations can pick that cultural view.

00:38:46;05 - 00:38:51;29
Rick A. Morris: In my experience you design to the 95 percent not for the five correct.

00:38:52;04 - 00:38:58;11
Rick A. Morris: And the more that you and I talk the more I think we need to have some sort of DNA test because you actually maybe my dad.

00:38:58;12 - 00:39:23;21
Rob Thomsett: I'm not sure that milk is going to tell you when in the old days when there was conferences that talked about this sort of stuff rather than you know had a run down shot. There was a very small group of people Rick and I was privileged to be part of it that all felt the same way. And you know welcome to the club.

00:39:24;06 - 00:39:26;18
Rob Thomsett: And what does that represent. Right.

00:39:27;08 - 00:39:49;16
Rob Thomsett: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you say you talk about the edge or clad in all this stuff. The thing I like to talk about is the ceremonies. Everyone thinks that our job is about the ceremonies to stand up their retrospectives. We're getting some we have been down Chow's blah blah blah. It isn't. It's about a fundamentally different way of working.

00:39:51;06 - 00:40:08;27
Rick A. Morris: I love it. Well unfortunately for the first time ever. Just so you know I've been doing this show for two years Rob. And for the first time ever I was offered to skip a full commercial break just to keep the conversation going and I took that opportunity with you but unfortunately we have to take a commercial break here so we're going to do so.


00:43:16;18 - 00:43:28;14
Rick A. Morris: And we're back to the final segment of the work life balance on this Friday and we're visiting with Rob Thomsett now with seven consulting he's from Australia and he's just been delighting us with stories.

00:43:28;14 - 00:44:11;12
Rick A. Morris: And you know Rob you know how I feel about you buddy. It's been such a delight to talk to you. You know I was flipping through radical project management again just preparing and I'm trying to find the spot again and I don't think I will. But you know I teach an elevator speech to our project managers because I hate to hear project managers try to describe what they do for a living because it sounds like a scene from Office Space right. It's horrible. And so I teach them to say you know that we make dreams come true and that it's a simple thing but you know what. I think that was influenced by you as well. I don't know if it was in my psyche or subconscious but that you had something like that in Radical project management as well correct.

00:44:12;03 - 00:44:34;06
Rob Thomsett: Yes yes in fact it was in both Radical and third wave and it was also in people in project management project management making dreams come true. Yeah. It's it's the management creativity and it's the focusing of creativity on helping people get to a better space. Absolutely wonderful job here.

00:44:34;06 - 00:44:48;17
Rick A. Morris: Here I think I thought I came up with that and I think you're the one that just threw it into my subconscious so I'm going to have to start crediting you with that again. So anybody who's ever heard me say that that came from Rob for me and thrown that out as well.

00:44:48;17 - 00:44:54;17
Rob Thomsett: But I so Rick ideas are like children. If you let them go.

00:44:54;19 - 00:45:02;03
Rick A. Morris: Exactly right. Right. That's our job. And I'll tell you what if that if there's one that we can spread all over the place. That's the one that needs to spread.

00:45:02;17 - 00:45:23;02
Rob Thomsett: Yeah. Yep. You know I'm 70 now and I've done this for over 40 years and I wouldn't I wouldn't do another job. You know the stuff that the creativity and the brilliance of people I've worked with is just inspirational to treasure.

00:45:23;03 - 00:45:35;16
Rick A. Morris: It really is and once you in and that's what I do love about this career is we get to do some of the coolest things and see some of the coolest things ever I mean ever.

00:45:36;09 - 00:46:13;24
Rob Thomsett: Yeah. And energy. And you know in most cases you get to see people at their best which is aligned together working together to achieve some something bigger than themselves. You know one of the things I've always believe rakers is when computing started and I.T. project manager we chose the role the all made metaphor for we chose buildings rather than movies. To me a much better analogy to what we do and especially in the age our world is like movies except these movies changed people's lives.

00:46:14;03 - 00:46:23;10
Rick A. Morris: Wow. So one of the questions we'd like to ask all of our guests that come on the show is what some of the best advice you would say you've ever received.

00:46:24;17 - 00:46:33;03
Rob Thomsett: Oh that's very interesting. Is this advice about project management or a broader broader in general tech.

00:46:33;06 - 00:46:42;16
Rob Thomsett: So without a doubt the most significant thing I've ever left is no one ever pays you enough not to be yourself.

00:46:43;08 - 00:46:46;17
Rick A. Morris: I like that you help you want to tell the story behind it.

00:46:47;06 - 00:48:05;02
Rob Thomsett: Yeah. Look you know especially if you go back 20 30 years. It was this sort of idea that you came to work and you hung up your real self on a rack and did some sort of corporate persona. I remember they all stories about the IBM way the suits and all that sort of stuff. And now as you know of being a musician all my life and I've had a rage a sense of humor. I used to sort of hide that from people I worked with and one day someone said to me why are you doing that. You don't get paid enough. There's a guy called Pete Alonso a wonderful man. And I started being who I am at work with clients as I as I am at heart. And to the last part. I have to really like that because I was described recently by a c c c as as a passionate eccentric. And he said we need more of this. So you know you got to be true to yourself you've got to be authentic. And people see respond to it. Yeah that really really mattered to me that listen you know I love it I love it.

00:48:05;18 - 00:48:40;07
Rick A. Morris: And yeah and quite frankly it's your humor. So again I was at a very vulnerable time in my career. I found that you know nobody was listening nobody was doing anything and it was your humor that allowed my humor to come out. You know the whole dark side of project management which I found hilarious by the way in Radikal project management. But it was it was your humor in being able to describe things that I actually took the stage in and just kind of let my wit lose a little bit which is where I feel like my speaking career took off.

00:48:40;25 - 00:49:16;17
Rob Thomsett: Yeah I can I can hear it in your voice. Rick I can actually hear your voice. I can see and hear the smile you know Stephen Colbert you know who I really love once said if you're laughing you can't be afraid. You know I'm deeply suspicious of people who don't have a sense of humor. But then having said that I'm also aware that sometimes my sense of humor does it does throw some people out but the answer is I just had to learn to live with that.

00:49:17;09 - 00:49:25;24
Rick A. Morris: Well that's just not our kind of client right. And we probably wouldn't have any fun doing work for them anyway. That's the beauty of us being our own our own consultants.

00:49:27;02 - 00:49:40;15
Rob Thomsett: That's it. That's correct. I mean you know the other thing I'd like to say you asked me that question. That's a big one. That is the biggest one but the second thing is is asking for help.

00:49:41;06 - 00:50:28;15
Rob Thomsett: I just you know this film's about it of course but I don't want to get into gender. But you know I find admitting you know something and asking people to explain it to you is a really really important thing. You know I'm having a debate with seven consulting at the moment that you know we really do take a really smart organization. We only hire the top 10 percent project managers of Australia. But the danger of that is because you've had the best. I think they know everything that makes sense. Absolutely. And so the I guess to summarize that to me a good day even at age 70 a really good day is a day you learn something. And you know Rick and John are still learning stuff which is that it's the best that's the best for me

00:50:28;27 - 00:50:50;25
Rick A. Morris: like I've I've gotten involved with the John Maxwell team is the big thing that I've done and John says you know he's he's got fewer certainties. The older he gets but he's more certain about those things than he ever has been. And I think that's a beautiful statement.

00:50:50;28 - 00:50:56;11
Rick A. Morris: He should have met me when I was 20 because I thought I was awesome.

00:50:56;19 - 00:51:36;18
Rob Thomsett: Yeah. And you know if you're a project manager and you fall into that trap and I talk about it. If you remember Rick the last page of radical I talk about crossing the line where the most important project management along the alert which is where the project managers ego becomes entangled with the project and they start owning the project on behalf of the sponsor and on behalf of the stakeholders. And once they cross that line that their last project manager exists to make other people's dreams happen not. Does that make sense.

00:51:36;27 - 00:51:46;04
Rick A. Morris: Absolutely yeah. We don't own any things down our budget on our scope on our people. So what is it want. We only own the blame for when it goes wrong.

00:51:46;05 - 00:52:26;28
Rob Thomsett: That's all we are don't tell any of the listeners want to have a look at that. Just put up a series. I'm going to do a lot more of this because you know Rick as you know people don't tend to read books sorry John. I just don't anymore. Studies linked in this as a voice for some of my writing so there's a series up there I just put up recently on LinkedIn on LinkedIn profile on change and the one point I'm saying to PMS is you don't have to live with the change that you deliver. So you have a moral responsibility to understand what you're doing impacts other people. And some PMs don't get that still that makes sense.

00:52:27;22 - 00:52:38;05
Rick A. Morris: Absolutely. Well Rob listen it's been a pleasure. The time has flown by. Unfortunately we are out of time which just means we have got to have you back. You get that.

00:52:38;10 - 00:52:44;29
Rob Thomsett: Absolutely. And I'll get the technology working better next time we can. John please accept my apologies for being a bit late.

00:52:45;02 - 00:53:12;09
Rick A. Morris: Not at all. Not at all. But any time any way out I'll hook it up with you again we'll get it back. But that's been robbed time said the legend himself to me and I can't thank you enough for being just you man I appreciate you're in we'll have you back but that's our edition of the work life balance. This week we'll talk to you guys next Friday when I've got Coach Beckler coming back and we'll talk about leadership and motivation. But that's it for this Friday. We'll see you guys next week.

00:53:12;09 - 00:53:15;05
Rick A. Morris: You've been listening to Rick Morris.